Both, but especially flat ones - and even more so if there is a bit of loose dirt. I seem to go into panic mode and go slow! Even though I am generally relatively fast even on single tracks, I'm ok/good with down intermediate and even some advanced sections, etc. But those corners...
Griff, I appreciate you finding this worthy of consideration and would like to just to highlight a point from personal experience.
I used to descend in a lowish hinge/squat and would reach the bottom thinking I was maybe a bit too far back on the bike. Currently I am trying to descend in more of a high hinge with weight a bit more forward but still aiming for heavy feet, light hands. In this position about half way down my quads start to tighten which they never did in my default position, not sure if this is position or posture related. Body position is I realise dynamic based on terrain and I am not static or fixed in position but never quite feel I am in the right position.
Alan, it's a good sign that your level of awareness about this is so nuanced. If this was an actual practice jam, I'd ask you how you could continue experimenting (posture vs position) and get feedback from someone besides your quads!
😂😂 I was wondering myself it it could be considered a MTB skill! I think it is probably classified as a MTB “jibbing” skill. So when are you going to practice rear wheel hops? 😜
Yep they make a great winter garage project. However they also make a great filler skill when you are practicing other stuff. Start in a TS with brakes locked. Simply rock back and get used to balancing on the rear wheel. Get used to stepping of the back of the bike. Try to work in a few hops once you get used to being on the back wheel. You will be that much farther ahead when you begin your “real” practice over the winter. NO MORE EXCUSES CADET! 😂
Just a dumb joke meant to reflect that I have sooooo many things I need to work on. Probably would have worked better if your question was something like “What is one skill you really need to work on?”
Good point, Richard, but without the "MTB" in the question, we might have gotten answers like "juggling" or "pottery" or "my inability to get my dog to fetch" etc!
Drops have been on my mind too lately, Valerie. I have kind of a "one size fits all approach" that apparently is not the best. What's your level of ability?
two wheel hopping. I now live in Anaconda, MT, and many trails are long, steep, uphill, and I will often get stuck on a little root, or rock. If I could hop with accuracy to realign, or to hop up and forward to get my front wheel over the thing that stopped me, it could be a way to keep going instead of walking around the obstacle. You mention bunny hopping though, that would probably be my second choice. I'm unable to bunny hop, never learned, and would like to.
You may find me a dinosaur.......on the fringe of this mindset.......but I don't really LIKE speed......riding fast.
I expect I would normally follow the Trials MTB model, looking for control in skills, rather than speed. At an early stage I redefined the essential of DH as "momentum", rather than "speed" -- and my goal was to find the minimum momentum needed to do each feature.
That worked nicely on well-built trails but not so well on "chundra", ie. rocky sections with steepish boulders and edges everywhere, and a chance of pedal traps. Here there was often no obvious line and you had to just bash over the tops. With increasingly improving suspensions it was sometimes easier to take a direct line over such obstacles, if it seemed to exist, anyway.....
To clear such obstacles, more momentum was needed.It was exciting - and scary - to see how well that worked.............more like DH racing technique.
Anyway..........your question.
On to ebikes.
The only way I've found to get down chundra on an ebike, and some regular features, is directly and with quite a lot of speed.
That works......if it works. Crashing at increased speed is not a viable spinoff.......especially on rocks.
And, as a speed-hater, I'm not easy with speed anyway.
SO.......what I seem to need is Straight-Line speed.
Not cornering, which classically happens on manicured berms and is a modern fad and option.
I can see that, regarding practice, there are some underlying considerations here:
STRESS/FEAR
I'm looking at increased physical risk. Possibly severe. Not a good motivator
ETHICS
Do I want to get into this new game? Is there really more chance of serious injury? Can I handle it?
Is there another way? Have I got the theory right? Would XC do the job?
As a trail builder, I often cheat and build some nice, safe, BD features to play on, but that's somewhat limited.
Now PRACTICE
I never did much like school, so I tend not to go for highly structured, formal learning. There are other, more casual ways, which may apply here to what seems a more generic need?
"Go faster on the straight and rocky"
Possibly, what I have to do is find a section of chundra that can be riden over and over, but is long enough to provide a certain flow.
I need to start in acceptable control, probably quite slowly.
The feature needs to be easy enough to allow this but difficult enough to demand careful and determined technique.
Once I can ride it in good control, then I can try increasing the speed a bit.........and process what that takes in technique. eg. Body position, pedaling? etc
If I find it getting sketchy there should (hopefully) be enough leeway to dial it back and try something else.
On-the-trail practice sites are harder to find and manage but his situation seems to need a "real" situation..........
I think I understand what you're saying about "straight line speed." But it seems to me that that's not a skill.
Speed is the result of developing lots of small skills (chunks!) and putting them together in various ways that allows more speed to happen on various types of terrain.
And that would include what's known as soft skills (eg vision, picking a line, etc) as well as hard skills (holding a line, hopping, etc). There are ways to practice both that aren't like school!
Another good question I have given this some thought in the past if there is one skill that I would want to improve and I use the most it’s cornering even know right now I’m practicing wheelies and wheelies probably have very little effect helping while riding trails
Aug 22, 2022·edited Aug 22, 2022Liked by Griff Wigley
Manuals. And not even the cool-guy long ones; I'd settle for a three second "trail manual." I can't even manual my front wheel high enough to have to worry about looping out. A manual seems like the key to so many other skills, so I am going with manuals.
Those don't bother me because my "gut" tells me there is a safe out under those conditions. It is the unpredictable drop off on either side of a skinny OR the fear of going over backwards that tends to make me play my cards safe. Stone wall builds that are steep also intimidate me because if they are not really well built they shift and are not super stable or predictable.
Ahhh. So maybe it's also a matter of gaining confidence in your skill at knowing how to get off the bike quickly and safely (bailing) in those tricky situations?
I totally agree - I blew my left ACL on a bad dismount and not knowing what the footing is in the area of the dismount intimidates me. Often times here in New England it is a stone wall that these features are built over and you have no idea how predictable that footing is going to be.
I love going over well built stone walls crossings in winter and we even ride along stone walls in winter BUT it is packed snow and visually it "looks" really safe. Ha! take that snow away and the confidence is not so much!
I can somewhat relate. I remember having to bail off a log skinny and land in a rock garden below and thinking on my way down, "This was stupid!" Fortunately, I landed on some small rocks and missed the bigger sharper ones.
Manual. Former road cyclist here, got into MTB 10 years ago or so. Switched to flats from clipless due to my crash fear. Technical skills still lacking but slowly building. Manual is probably my next step. Zero manual ability.
Props on making the transition to flats and technical riding, Peter.
Have you ever tried to get your front wheel up/over an obstacle like a small rock, log, or curb using the classic front-wheel lift technique? If so, have you ever attempted using a manual front-wheel lift technique over the same obstacles?
Aug 24, 2022·edited Aug 24, 2022Liked by Griff Wigley
Yes sure, have been getting front wheel up/over a small obstacle but not sure I am using the 'classic front-wheel lift technique'--compress forks and pop up? I have a 12 acre property, I really should set up a practice area. . . .
Cornering - proper, safe and fast
Flat corners or bermed corners, Wyand? Or both?
Both, but especially flat ones - and even more so if there is a bit of loose dirt. I seem to go into panic mode and go slow! Even though I am generally relatively fast even on single tracks, I'm ok/good with down intermediate and even some advanced sections, etc. But those corners...
Yup, flat and off-camber corners with traction issues (loose dirt, gravel, wet, etc) are indeed tricky.
Jumping and Manuals
I'm with you on both of those, Michael. But if you had to choose just one right now?
Manuals!
Body position and awareness of where wieght is on the bike to help generate maximum grip
I like this, Alan. Would posture also be part of it?
Absolutely, posture and position def linked.
Griff, I appreciate you finding this worthy of consideration and would like to just to highlight a point from personal experience.
I used to descend in a lowish hinge/squat and would reach the bottom thinking I was maybe a bit too far back on the bike. Currently I am trying to descend in more of a high hinge with weight a bit more forward but still aiming for heavy feet, light hands. In this position about half way down my quads start to tighten which they never did in my default position, not sure if this is position or posture related. Body position is I realise dynamic based on terrain and I am not static or fixed in position but never quite feel I am in the right position.
Alan, it's a good sign that your level of awareness about this is so nuanced. If this was an actual practice jam, I'd ask you how you could continue experimenting (posture vs position) and get feedback from someone besides your quads!
Too many to count! Probably wheelies if I had to pick a MTB skill. Otherwise pedal kicks for Trials skills.
Hah! What makes you think a wheelie is an MTB skill, Pat?
😂😂 I was wondering myself it it could be considered a MTB skill! I think it is probably classified as a MTB “jibbing” skill. So when are you going to practice rear wheel hops? 😜
Pat, I'll work on rear-wheel hops as soon as I can find someone willing to coach me. Oh wait... 🤣
I'm thinking it'll be a winter garage project. I gotta solve my boulder problem first and then get some end-of-season jumping time in.
Yep they make a great winter garage project. However they also make a great filler skill when you are practicing other stuff. Start in a TS with brakes locked. Simply rock back and get used to balancing on the rear wheel. Get used to stepping of the back of the bike. Try to work in a few hops once you get used to being on the back wheel. You will be that much farther ahead when you begin your “real” practice over the winter. NO MORE EXCUSES CADET! 😂
Jeez, you're strict. Aye aye sir!
Jumping!
Likewise, Gvf. How would you characterize your current ability? I'm at the newbie intermediate level.
Same, I can do some tabletops, but when doing bigger jumps at higher speed, I just mess up, doesn’t seem to click
Is this a trick question?
It's not, Richard. It's one way to encourage you to not just think about improving but by extension, to think about how you might go about practicing.
Can you say more about why you think it might be a trick question?
Just a dumb joke meant to reflect that I have sooooo many things I need to work on. Probably would have worked better if your question was something like “What is one skill you really need to work on?”
Good point, Richard, but without the "MTB" in the question, we might have gotten answers like "juggling" or "pottery" or "my inability to get my dog to fetch" etc!
Drops
Drops have been on my mind too lately, Valerie. I have kind of a "one size fits all approach" that apparently is not the best. What's your level of ability?
Track stands or manuals
I love track stands, Mark. And I'm currently working on manual-related flaws.
If you had to pick one?
I guess track stands 1st…….baby steps.
Yup. But what about Bob? 😁
Manual
Manuals seem to be a popular choice, Mark. I'm working on them currently. What's your level of manual ability?
Hopping.
Hey Jeff, would it be bunny hopping or level lifts/two wheel hopping?
two wheel hopping. I now live in Anaconda, MT, and many trails are long, steep, uphill, and I will often get stuck on a little root, or rock. If I could hop with accuracy to realign, or to hop up and forward to get my front wheel over the thing that stopped me, it could be a way to keep going instead of walking around the obstacle. You mention bunny hopping though, that would probably be my second choice. I'm unable to bunny hop, never learned, and would like to.
Going faster than I'm comfortable with now..........in control.
Rusty would that involve cornering faster? Less unnecessary braking? Better posture? Body position? Vision?
You may find me a dinosaur.......on the fringe of this mindset.......but I don't really LIKE speed......riding fast.
I expect I would normally follow the Trials MTB model, looking for control in skills, rather than speed. At an early stage I redefined the essential of DH as "momentum", rather than "speed" -- and my goal was to find the minimum momentum needed to do each feature.
That worked nicely on well-built trails but not so well on "chundra", ie. rocky sections with steepish boulders and edges everywhere, and a chance of pedal traps. Here there was often no obvious line and you had to just bash over the tops. With increasingly improving suspensions it was sometimes easier to take a direct line over such obstacles, if it seemed to exist, anyway.....
To clear such obstacles, more momentum was needed.It was exciting - and scary - to see how well that worked.............more like DH racing technique.
Anyway..........your question.
On to ebikes.
The only way I've found to get down chundra on an ebike, and some regular features, is directly and with quite a lot of speed.
That works......if it works. Crashing at increased speed is not a viable spinoff.......especially on rocks.
And, as a speed-hater, I'm not easy with speed anyway.
SO.......what I seem to need is Straight-Line speed.
Not cornering, which classically happens on manicured berms and is a modern fad and option.
I can see that, regarding practice, there are some underlying considerations here:
STRESS/FEAR
I'm looking at increased physical risk. Possibly severe. Not a good motivator
ETHICS
Do I want to get into this new game? Is there really more chance of serious injury? Can I handle it?
Is there another way? Have I got the theory right? Would XC do the job?
As a trail builder, I often cheat and build some nice, safe, BD features to play on, but that's somewhat limited.
Now PRACTICE
I never did much like school, so I tend not to go for highly structured, formal learning. There are other, more casual ways, which may apply here to what seems a more generic need?
"Go faster on the straight and rocky"
Possibly, what I have to do is find a section of chundra that can be riden over and over, but is long enough to provide a certain flow.
I need to start in acceptable control, probably quite slowly.
The feature needs to be easy enough to allow this but difficult enough to demand careful and determined technique.
Once I can ride it in good control, then I can try increasing the speed a bit.........and process what that takes in technique. eg. Body position, pedaling? etc
If I find it getting sketchy there should (hopefully) be enough leeway to dial it back and try something else.
On-the-trail practice sites are harder to find and manage but his situation seems to need a "real" situation..........
SO.....
This has been a useful process.
Thanks...........and thank your granddaughter.
You're welcome Rusty.
I think I understand what you're saying about "straight line speed." But it seems to me that that's not a skill.
Speed is the result of developing lots of small skills (chunks!) and putting them together in various ways that allows more speed to happen on various types of terrain.
And that would include what's known as soft skills (eg vision, picking a line, etc) as well as hard skills (holding a line, hopping, etc). There are ways to practice both that aren't like school!
I'd like to improve whatever skills contribute most to riding skinny obstacles with confidence.
Good choice, Kevin. Skinny skills are built with small sub-skills that aren't obvious.
manuals
Manuals seem to be a popular choice, Eric. I'm working on them currently. What's your level of manual ability?
have marginal ability in manuals
do have a ninja balance tool used to practice but need help.
I've read a lot about the pros and cons of "manual machines" like the Ninja Hopper but I've never tried one.
https://ridelikeaninja.com/product/ninja-mtb-hopper-balance/
Another good question I have given this some thought in the past if there is one skill that I would want to improve and I use the most it’s cornering even know right now I’m practicing wheelies and wheelies probably have very little effect helping while riding trails
That's true about wheelies, Mark. They're mostly worthless but So. Much. Fun. Or so I'm told 😂
Mark, are you trying to improve on flat or bermed corners?
Griff I would like to improve on flat and bermed corners .
Manuals. And not even the cool-guy long ones; I'd settle for a three second "trail manual." I can't even manual my front wheel high enough to have to worry about looping out. A manual seems like the key to so many other skills, so I am going with manuals.
Excellent choice, Dave. I've been working on my manuals the past week!
Drops. I just finished the Rock Solid Drops course, but I want to continue to get better.
Likewise, John. As I wrote to Valerie in a comment earlier, I have kind of a "one size fits all approach" that apparently is not the best.
Track stands on uphill skinny features! Fear of Losing my momentum on these continues to thwart me from even trying many of them.
Hi Renee. Long time no chat! Yes, those are tricky for me, too. What if the uphill surface is grass or dirt and you're going straight up (not across)?
Those don't bother me because my "gut" tells me there is a safe out under those conditions. It is the unpredictable drop off on either side of a skinny OR the fear of going over backwards that tends to make me play my cards safe. Stone wall builds that are steep also intimidate me because if they are not really well built they shift and are not super stable or predictable.
Ahhh. So maybe it's also a matter of gaining confidence in your skill at knowing how to get off the bike quickly and safely (bailing) in those tricky situations?
I totally agree - I blew my left ACL on a bad dismount and not knowing what the footing is in the area of the dismount intimidates me. Often times here in New England it is a stone wall that these features are built over and you have no idea how predictable that footing is going to be.
I love going over well built stone walls crossings in winter and we even ride along stone walls in winter BUT it is packed snow and visually it "looks" really safe. Ha! take that snow away and the confidence is not so much!
Ouch!
I can somewhat relate. I remember having to bail off a log skinny and land in a rock garden below and thinking on my way down, "This was stupid!" Fortunately, I landed on some small rocks and missed the bigger sharper ones.
That would be trackstands to start with, I guess.
Manual. Former road cyclist here, got into MTB 10 years ago or so. Switched to flats from clipless due to my crash fear. Technical skills still lacking but slowly building. Manual is probably my next step. Zero manual ability.
Props on making the transition to flats and technical riding, Peter.
Have you ever tried to get your front wheel up/over an obstacle like a small rock, log, or curb using the classic front-wheel lift technique? If so, have you ever attempted using a manual front-wheel lift technique over the same obstacles?
Yes sure, have been getting front wheel up/over a small obstacle but not sure I am using the 'classic front-wheel lift technique'--compress forks and pop up? I have a 12 acre property, I really should set up a practice area. . . .
Peter, see this tutorial by Ryan Leech on the classic front wheel lift:
https://learn.ryanleech.com/blog/classic-front-wheel-lifts