At this level of clinical investigation it may be useful to step back and consider the Sufi story of the Blind Men and the Elephant: everyone's right and everyone's wrong!
As we wrestle with more complex behaviors, it is also useful to standardize our terms -- organize our jargon into a more exact lexicon -- so we all have the same apples and oranges on the table. eg the term "automatic" is a vague popular description of an amazing complex automotive concept, which is easily misunderstood and/or used out of context.
The main elements I see in this large learning area is the difference between "empathy"and "skills/knowledge/expertise.
In my model there is absolutely nothing "wrong" with the Holy Grail of skills/knowledge/empathy/expertise. The Achilles Heel here is the empathy of humans.........and MTB teachers in general. Alas, very few of us seem to be able to really empathize, even with students (what about our children?!). There are so many temptations to grandstand, seek dominance, patronize etc (mansplain?).......
Much of the article has useful ways to enhance empathy (at the risk of "the blind leading the blind?).
The issue of Lack Of Empathy is a complex therapeutical challenge........fortunately made easier and more fun by our love of the outdoors, of a good challenge -- and the traditional after-ride mug of good ale.
Rusty, I'm inclined to think that instructors, coaches, leaders, etc., need empathy and that they should be deliberate about improving it.
I'm not sure 'deliberate' empathy is needed for peer learning to be effective. There seems to be more of an automatic reaction when you see someone stuck about something that you were just stuck on.
Pure PL, without a leader, teacher or facilitator (with above-peer expertise) is a special case: the group realize that they have no outside resources to rely on, so, the theory/hope goes, they should be motivated to cooperate/empathise with each other.
If we disregard that MTBers are especially nice people and that The Outdoors "brings out the best in us", I'm not sure that it makes much difference. The "Lord Of The Flies" syndrome is always there waiting. I'm afraid that humans seem to have a natural propensity to compete and be somewhat self-centered.
Of course, there are also Combat Buddies.
If a group has had a chance to "settle down"......learn each other's strengths and weaknesses, and if they are in a situation where they are in grave peril, then they often "bond". This complex process takes quite a while and involves much practical compromise, as well as some positive reinforcement.
Maybe what's happening with casual MTB outings is more simple": having a role model, practicing social niceties and general recreation. This can all be very useful and pleasant
and it will help to have some advice on how to participate.
A sophisticated Leader can also structure such a thing to facilitate it's unique potential.
Also.......even if self-centeredness is unavoidable, it helps to have some tips on how to deal (politely but firmly) with unwanted or unusable expert advice.
Deliberate Empathy
Hmmmmmm.........vs "automatic reaction"?
The term "automatic" is not very useful in a rational enquiry. Humans have Reflex, Autonomic and a whole host of chemical and electrical reactions but they are very different from automated machine circuitry.
But nice people do often seem to "want to help"........There But For The Grace Of God Go I ?
Suggesting such possibilities may help ; developing them more tricky.....
Personally.........I do like to watch someone else try a difficult (and/or dangerous) feature before I commit myself. This may be simply suvival/opportunistic -- "better him/her than me" -- and it may be in the hope that I can learn new tricks. I enjoy learning......tho maybe not quite as much as your video stars hopping around in (heated?) garages.
I do ride-throughs with a few local buddies and, on occasions, ride intensively with my family.
Although we do things up to Black Diamond, we mainly just ride, with very little of the intense learning you are looking at.
Of course we support each other, especially on the more advanced features -- including recon and some coaching, especially of good lines. But it's really focussed on a successful completion of each obstacle, not on learning per se.
My own intense learning is solitary.......I like fooling around in odd moments and in quizzing someone who is pulling a neat trick.
It seems that progress is made, on the whole, by role modeling........and a kind of osmosis......?
..........also I find the video option very useful.
Whew........heavy stuff...
At this level of clinical investigation it may be useful to step back and consider the Sufi story of the Blind Men and the Elephant: everyone's right and everyone's wrong!
As we wrestle with more complex behaviors, it is also useful to standardize our terms -- organize our jargon into a more exact lexicon -- so we all have the same apples and oranges on the table. eg the term "automatic" is a vague popular description of an amazing complex automotive concept, which is easily misunderstood and/or used out of context.
The main elements I see in this large learning area is the difference between "empathy"and "skills/knowledge/expertise.
In my model there is absolutely nothing "wrong" with the Holy Grail of skills/knowledge/empathy/expertise. The Achilles Heel here is the empathy of humans.........and MTB teachers in general. Alas, very few of us seem to be able to really empathize, even with students (what about our children?!). There are so many temptations to grandstand, seek dominance, patronize etc (mansplain?).......
Much of the article has useful ways to enhance empathy (at the risk of "the blind leading the blind?).
The issue of Lack Of Empathy is a complex therapeutical challenge........fortunately made easier and more fun by our love of the outdoors, of a good challenge -- and the traditional after-ride mug of good ale.
Rusty, I'm inclined to think that instructors, coaches, leaders, etc., need empathy and that they should be deliberate about improving it.
I'm not sure 'deliberate' empathy is needed for peer learning to be effective. There seems to be more of an automatic reaction when you see someone stuck about something that you were just stuck on.
Could that be right?
Peer Learning
Pure PL, without a leader, teacher or facilitator (with above-peer expertise) is a special case: the group realize that they have no outside resources to rely on, so, the theory/hope goes, they should be motivated to cooperate/empathise with each other.
If we disregard that MTBers are especially nice people and that The Outdoors "brings out the best in us", I'm not sure that it makes much difference. The "Lord Of The Flies" syndrome is always there waiting. I'm afraid that humans seem to have a natural propensity to compete and be somewhat self-centered.
Of course, there are also Combat Buddies.
If a group has had a chance to "settle down"......learn each other's strengths and weaknesses, and if they are in a situation where they are in grave peril, then they often "bond". This complex process takes quite a while and involves much practical compromise, as well as some positive reinforcement.
Maybe what's happening with casual MTB outings is more simple": having a role model, practicing social niceties and general recreation. This can all be very useful and pleasant
and it will help to have some advice on how to participate.
A sophisticated Leader can also structure such a thing to facilitate it's unique potential.
Also.......even if self-centeredness is unavoidable, it helps to have some tips on how to deal (politely but firmly) with unwanted or unusable expert advice.
Deliberate Empathy
Hmmmmmm.........vs "automatic reaction"?
The term "automatic" is not very useful in a rational enquiry. Humans have Reflex, Autonomic and a whole host of chemical and electrical reactions but they are very different from automated machine circuitry.
But nice people do often seem to "want to help"........There But For The Grace Of God Go I ?
Suggesting such possibilities may help ; developing them more tricky.....
Personally.........I do like to watch someone else try a difficult (and/or dangerous) feature before I commit myself. This may be simply suvival/opportunistic -- "better him/her than me" -- and it may be in the hope that I can learn new tricks. I enjoy learning......tho maybe not quite as much as your video stars hopping around in (heated?) garages.
Rusty, do you have one or more riding buddies near you who are at or near your ability level in one or more skills?
Sort of.
I do ride-throughs with a few local buddies and, on occasions, ride intensively with my family.
Although we do things up to Black Diamond, we mainly just ride, with very little of the intense learning you are looking at.
Of course we support each other, especially on the more advanced features -- including recon and some coaching, especially of good lines. But it's really focussed on a successful completion of each obstacle, not on learning per se.
My own intense learning is solitary.......I like fooling around in odd moments and in quizzing someone who is pulling a neat trick.
It seems that progress is made, on the whole, by role modeling........and a kind of osmosis......?
..........also I find the video option very useful.
Have you experimented with written reflection after some of your solitary learning sessions?