I've included this comment to you in that post but I'm repeating it here. I wrote:
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Dale, as I mentioned above, many practice sessions involved bursts of significant exertion for one or more attempts that require some recovery (1-2 minutes?) before we attempt additional reps in a set. And after 10-20 minutes of that, more general fatigue might need a more extended break. But otherwise, a break every 10 minutes is warranted even if you're not working the muscle group hard.
I think whenever you feel tired, which I'd describe as your body not being able to perform the proper technique. In other words, I'd think you want to maintain the ability to build muscle memory, and not get sloppy, resting as often as it takes. The rests might be as short as a few (say 30) seconds, depending what you're working on.
I've included this comment to you in that post but I'm repeating it here. I wrote:
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Jeff, I agree that getting tired, either temporarily after a burst of exertion or more general fatigue after a lengthy session, can negatively affect one’s technique. But rather than thinking that tiredness is about not being able to build muscle memory (a misnomer that I describe here), I think it’s more helpful to think of it as impeding one’s ability to retrieve the maneuver from long-term memory.
I read one study (can’t remember details) said if you practice a guitar piece nineteen times before getting it right, then stop having had success. You are practicing the failure nineteen times, and success only once, and therefore what will dominate is the failure. However, remaining playful, does seem to somewhat overrule or ameliorate this response.
Perhaps while you can remain focused and playful, in heart and mind, is a good periodicity of practise sessions?
I've included this comment to you in that post but I'm repeating it here. I wrote:
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Trevor, remaining focused and playful is always a good combination, but I think it’s often difficult to be playful when you’re new to a skill or stuck at a level for a long time.
Recent research on initially learning a new skill indicates that many failed repetitions are helpful because it cues the brain for neuroplasticity. I’ll have more about this in a future post.
The science would seem to indicate that you should take a break when you can’t maintain the focus required/desired. To set a time on it is problematic. Current teaching/learning science, from what I have read/understood, perhaps suggests a break every 15-20 minutes will give good development for the broad middle section of the bell curve on a graph of exercise physiology development.
I've included this comment to you in that post but I'm repeating it here. I wrote:
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Trevor, the ability to maintain focus is indeed huge. I've started work on a long post about developing the skill of concentration. But if we only retrieve repetitions from short-term memory, the benefits are limited no matter how focused we are. Plus, for most recreational athletes, our minds tend to wander more quickly when we keep doing the same thing over and over.
Whenever you feel tired OR getting too quickly frustrated! and I remember from my years of riding horses that if you get some thing right you don’t necessarily have to continue getting it right repeatedly! In other words don’t practice something to the point that you then start over analyzing what you are doing
I've included this comment to you in that post but I'm repeating it here. I wrote:
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Renee, see my comments above about getting tired.
I'm glad you mentioned getting frustrated. That is a sign to take a break, for sure! However, I'd argue that taking a break will only ease your frustration if you can change your mindset. I'll have more about mindset in a future post.
Getting a skill right the first time is an important event, but you're right; it's unrealistic to expect that you should be able to get it right after that repeatedly. However, there's a relevant saying: "Practice begins when you get it right." More to come about that!
A brake ever 10 minutes is needed so you don’t over work the muscle group you are using
Thanks for chiming in, Dale. I'll be interested in your reaction to my follow-up post on the poll.
Dale, I've published a follow-up post at:
https://mtbpracticelab.substack.com/p/quiz-results-breaks-during-mtb-practice
I've included this comment to you in that post but I'm repeating it here. I wrote:
-----
Dale, as I mentioned above, many practice sessions involved bursts of significant exertion for one or more attempts that require some recovery (1-2 minutes?) before we attempt additional reps in a set. And after 10-20 minutes of that, more general fatigue might need a more extended break. But otherwise, a break every 10 minutes is warranted even if you're not working the muscle group hard.
I think whenever you feel tired, which I'd describe as your body not being able to perform the proper technique. In other words, I'd think you want to maintain the ability to build muscle memory, and not get sloppy, resting as often as it takes. The rests might be as short as a few (say 30) seconds, depending what you're working on.
Thanks for your rationale, Jeff. I'm not tipping my hand yet on whether I agree or disagree!
In the meantime, since you mentioned "I'd think you want to maintain the ability to build muscle memory," you might want to check out my post titled:
"Muscle memory is a myth that encourages the wrong way to use repetition when learning MTB skills"
https://mtbpracticelab.substack.com/p/muscle-memory-is-mtb-repetition-myth
Feel free to comment there!
Jeff, I've published a follow-up post at:
https://mtbpracticelab.substack.com/p/quiz-results-breaks-during-mtb-practice
I've included this comment to you in that post but I'm repeating it here. I wrote:
-----
Jeff, I agree that getting tired, either temporarily after a burst of exertion or more general fatigue after a lengthy session, can negatively affect one’s technique. But rather than thinking that tiredness is about not being able to build muscle memory (a misnomer that I describe here), I think it’s more helpful to think of it as impeding one’s ability to retrieve the maneuver from long-term memory.
I read one study (can’t remember details) said if you practice a guitar piece nineteen times before getting it right, then stop having had success. You are practicing the failure nineteen times, and success only once, and therefore what will dominate is the failure. However, remaining playful, does seem to somewhat overrule or ameliorate this response.
Perhaps while you can remain focused and playful, in heart and mind, is a good periodicity of practise sessions?
I'm glad you mentioned this conundrum, Trevor. I'll address it in my follow-up post on the quiz results.
Trevor, I've published a follow-up post at:
https://mtbpracticelab.substack.com/p/quiz-results-breaks-during-mtb-practice
I've included this comment to you in that post but I'm repeating it here. I wrote:
-----
Trevor, remaining focused and playful is always a good combination, but I think it’s often difficult to be playful when you’re new to a skill or stuck at a level for a long time.
Recent research on initially learning a new skill indicates that many failed repetitions are helpful because it cues the brain for neuroplasticity. I’ll have more about this in a future post.
The science would seem to indicate that you should take a break when you can’t maintain the focus required/desired. To set a time on it is problematic. Current teaching/learning science, from what I have read/understood, perhaps suggests a break every 15-20 minutes will give good development for the broad middle section of the bell curve on a graph of exercise physiology development.
What does science actually show us?
Trevor, I'll address the science in my follow-up post. But suffice to say, it's complicated!
Trevor, one more time! As I mentioned above, I've published a follow-up post at:
https://mtbpracticelab.substack.com/p/quiz-results-breaks-during-mtb-practice
I've included this comment to you in that post but I'm repeating it here. I wrote:
-----
Trevor, the ability to maintain focus is indeed huge. I've started work on a long post about developing the skill of concentration. But if we only retrieve repetitions from short-term memory, the benefits are limited no matter how focused we are. Plus, for most recreational athletes, our minds tend to wander more quickly when we keep doing the same thing over and over.
Whenever you feel tired OR getting too quickly frustrated! and I remember from my years of riding horses that if you get some thing right you don’t necessarily have to continue getting it right repeatedly! In other words don’t practice something to the point that you then start over analyzing what you are doing
My apologies for not replying sooner, Renee.
You raise two interesting points that I'll address in my upcoming post. Real Soon Now!
Renee, I've published a follow-up post at:
https://mtbpracticelab.substack.com/p/quiz-results-breaks-during-mtb-practice
I've included this comment to you in that post but I'm repeating it here. I wrote:
-----
Renee, see my comments above about getting tired.
I'm glad you mentioned getting frustrated. That is a sign to take a break, for sure! However, I'd argue that taking a break will only ease your frustration if you can change your mindset. I'll have more about mindset in a future post.
Getting a skill right the first time is an important event, but you're right; it's unrealistic to expect that you should be able to get it right after that repeatedly. However, there's a relevant saying: "Practice begins when you get it right." More to come about that!