I think that plateaus are frustrating when you are trying too hard to grind it out.
I find them to be puzzles and solving them should be fun.
One thing I’m doing is stretching to learn similar skills on a kick scooter for example scalloping turns to pump and gain momentum was proving a challenge. Yet I found it simpler on the scooter than the bike... once I had it, I was able to apply the skill to slalom drills which let to better bike-body separation, which lead to some success on the bike. Rinse - repeat.
Importantly for me, it was all fun. Playing with the vehicles, exploring potential, exaggerating movement, and trying drills in new venues (riding at night on the parking lot really gets you a different focus) to trigger dopamine and flow.
I was certainly analyzing but being too
much up in my head breaks the process. Talking about it afterwards helped.
Roy, I like your use of the word 'puzzle' in this context. I'm going to steal that!
I'm also intrigued by your scooter story and the insights you had. I've thought about how my snowboarding could do something similar but have yet to apply it.
You also mentioned that "talking about it afterwards helped." Can you say more about this? I'm always interested in reflection as a practice strategy. My post from July last year:
"There are ways to make reflection interesting and beneficial for developing your mountain biking skills"
I’ve coached high school wresting and the best way to find your gaps in knowledge and practice is to try to explain something to a novice.
This directly applies as I work through skills with my 7 year old and to myself as a relatively new rider.
He is now mature enough to stop and session features with me and we discuss how to approach say a rock roll - how our different bikes will react, when and where to shift weigh, gears, and speed - during the session.
We go home and show my partner video and he explains what we talked about, what worked, and what didn’t. I tend to journal about things.
We discuss framing the specific features as challenging puzzles requiring patience and time. This applies to his schooling as well.
Building features and free riding as puzzle solving. I’m fortunate to have enough forested land on a steep hill with logging trails that I can build essentially what whatever I want - using IMBA best practices- or just ride down the side of the mountain as the rocks, trees, and holes allow.
We discover line choices, discuss how we approached or choose not to approach objects. What happened when… X or Y. In the moment it is fun and just tricky enough to allow us too apply skills. And experiment.
The trail building has evolved as our riding skills have. Planning is fun - what can we do with this line? What would we imagine our needs to be in 12 months?
Running the lines over and over - then talking through what we could do better riding or is it the design (curve radius, lip length, or width of roller). We have to pick apart everything.
We discuss trails we ride elsewhere- how was it build, why this and not that? Can we do this or better? Same for stuff on videos. We analyzed teaching methods as well as the effectiveness of the skills being taught- note my partner learned to teach at Michigan and has lots to say on teaching methodology so we learn from sources outside our area of interest.
In summary, reflection is not a one and done thing but a process where one uses many lenses including play to find the next steps.
Roy, that's really helpful. You're a lucky/wise dad.
With your permission, I might like to use that comment in a new post, expanding on The Art of Reflection and/or how parental coaching can be a way to deepen one's learning.
Might you have some photos and/or videos of you and your son practicing?
All this Serious Thinking has made me realize that I'm basically a Rider of Trails......as technical as possible; but my main goal, joy....and relief ...is to get down a section of trail, rather than pull off a certain skilled manoevre.
That means I judge my progress by how well I manage trail features.
My biggie plateau right now is adapting to an ebike. I'm having challenges getting used to the extra speed I need (or think I need?) to break through on tech sections.
With my new-found insights (see above), I am not looking at specific skills to work on, but focussing on my Whole-Trail strategy. I'm just going back to easier trails, and working those, to try to re-discover The Flow.........with the missing ingredient magically appearing.
This hopefully means that I cannot use my Learning Method as a scapegoat for any lack of Application.
I can tell clearly if I cleaned the trail comfortably.
Interestingly -- it seems a new style seems to be emerging. Very few wheelies are making it through, and track stands are super hard to pull off.
I think the skills analysis has been helpful in reconciling me to this (exciting) upheaval in my regular mountain biking world.
I'm hoping these random/varied practice strategies will help me break through a plateau I'm grinding through with wheelies. I've almost thrown in the towel, telling myself that there are more important riding skills to develop, but I've wanted to be able to wheelie for extended distances since I was a kid. I'm "regressing to progress," going back to several lessons in the RLC course and utilizing these random/varied/ugly practice strategies. I swapped back and forth between my full suspension and hard tail and was amazed at how differently they responded to the essentially same rider input.
Hey Butch, if you can wait a week, I've got a scheme to implement in which paid subscribers like you will be able to practice together with me. And one of the skills that I want to work on is wheelies, as I'm in the same boat as you. And I know at least one other person who's in the same place as us. Might you be willing?
As for different bikes responding differently to your wheelie attempts, do you think that the strategy to swapping them out during practice is a type of 'desirably difficulty' that will help lead to more effective learning?
I'm all in on that for sure, Griff. Please send me the details. I'm not sure that swapping the bike types is a sufficient change in difficulty. I've wondered if practicing on steeper grades might introduce some variability. One thing for sure, the hard tail snaps up to the float zone quickly, the FS not as much. That's where I'm hung up, getting to the float zone consistently. When I do get there, I can up to 6 to 8 pedal strokes in before I drop my vision or lose my side-to-side balance. I can feel the effects of turning the bar, widening the knees, etc. on the side-to-side balance. Maintaining the float zone front-to-back by modulating the rear brake is eluding me. Every attempt just brings the front tire back to earth. Ha.
As a fellow failed wheelier I can sympathise with what you're saying! Is the geo of your FS significantly different to the hardtail? I have a few older bikes with slack seat angles and short chainstays and they are significantly easier to pop up than my more modern bikes. I think the seat tube angle is the major differentiator.
For me the hard bit with plateaus is believing that there is an 'up' to come. It makes sense that at some point I will inevitably plateau out so maybe I am there already? Approaching the drills with curiosity and fun instead of a focus to acheive will make a difference I think.
I think that plateaus are frustrating when you are trying too hard to grind it out.
I find them to be puzzles and solving them should be fun.
One thing I’m doing is stretching to learn similar skills on a kick scooter for example scalloping turns to pump and gain momentum was proving a challenge. Yet I found it simpler on the scooter than the bike... once I had it, I was able to apply the skill to slalom drills which let to better bike-body separation, which lead to some success on the bike. Rinse - repeat.
Importantly for me, it was all fun. Playing with the vehicles, exploring potential, exaggerating movement, and trying drills in new venues (riding at night on the parking lot really gets you a different focus) to trigger dopamine and flow.
I was certainly analyzing but being too
much up in my head breaks the process. Talking about it afterwards helped.
Also I enjoyed the podcast!
Cheers.
Roy, I like your use of the word 'puzzle' in this context. I'm going to steal that!
I'm also intrigued by your scooter story and the insights you had. I've thought about how my snowboarding could do something similar but have yet to apply it.
You also mentioned that "talking about it afterwards helped." Can you say more about this? I'm always interested in reflection as a practice strategy. My post from July last year:
"There are ways to make reflection interesting and beneficial for developing your mountain biking skills"
https://mtbpracticelab.substack.com/p/using-reflection-to-develop-mtb-skills
A few reflective thoughts and a lot of coffee -
I’ve coached high school wresting and the best way to find your gaps in knowledge and practice is to try to explain something to a novice.
This directly applies as I work through skills with my 7 year old and to myself as a relatively new rider.
He is now mature enough to stop and session features with me and we discuss how to approach say a rock roll - how our different bikes will react, when and where to shift weigh, gears, and speed - during the session.
We go home and show my partner video and he explains what we talked about, what worked, and what didn’t. I tend to journal about things.
We discuss framing the specific features as challenging puzzles requiring patience and time. This applies to his schooling as well.
Building features and free riding as puzzle solving. I’m fortunate to have enough forested land on a steep hill with logging trails that I can build essentially what whatever I want - using IMBA best practices- or just ride down the side of the mountain as the rocks, trees, and holes allow.
We discover line choices, discuss how we approached or choose not to approach objects. What happened when… X or Y. In the moment it is fun and just tricky enough to allow us too apply skills. And experiment.
The trail building has evolved as our riding skills have. Planning is fun - what can we do with this line? What would we imagine our needs to be in 12 months?
Running the lines over and over - then talking through what we could do better riding or is it the design (curve radius, lip length, or width of roller). We have to pick apart everything.
We discuss trails we ride elsewhere- how was it build, why this and not that? Can we do this or better? Same for stuff on videos. We analyzed teaching methods as well as the effectiveness of the skills being taught- note my partner learned to teach at Michigan and has lots to say on teaching methodology so we learn from sources outside our area of interest.
In summary, reflection is not a one and done thing but a process where one uses many lenses including play to find the next steps.
Roy, that's really helpful. You're a lucky/wise dad.
With your permission, I might like to use that comment in a new post, expanding on The Art of Reflection and/or how parental coaching can be a way to deepen one's learning.
Might you have some photos and/or videos of you and your son practicing?
All this Serious Thinking has made me realize that I'm basically a Rider of Trails......as technical as possible; but my main goal, joy....and relief ...is to get down a section of trail, rather than pull off a certain skilled manoevre.
That means I judge my progress by how well I manage trail features.
My biggie plateau right now is adapting to an ebike. I'm having challenges getting used to the extra speed I need (or think I need?) to break through on tech sections.
With my new-found insights (see above), I am not looking at specific skills to work on, but focussing on my Whole-Trail strategy. I'm just going back to easier trails, and working those, to try to re-discover The Flow.........with the missing ingredient magically appearing.
This hopefully means that I cannot use my Learning Method as a scapegoat for any lack of Application.
I can tell clearly if I cleaned the trail comfortably.
Interestingly -- it seems a new style seems to be emerging. Very few wheelies are making it through, and track stands are super hard to pull off.
I think the skills analysis has been helpful in reconciling me to this (exciting) upheaval in my regular mountain biking world.
Hey Rusty, I'm glad you experienced a "missing ingredient magically appearing" and that you're excited about the 'upheaval.'
Keep reflecting like you've been doing (but not too much!) and you'll likely continue finding joy and relief as a Rider of Trails.
I'm hoping these random/varied practice strategies will help me break through a plateau I'm grinding through with wheelies. I've almost thrown in the towel, telling myself that there are more important riding skills to develop, but I've wanted to be able to wheelie for extended distances since I was a kid. I'm "regressing to progress," going back to several lessons in the RLC course and utilizing these random/varied/ugly practice strategies. I swapped back and forth between my full suspension and hard tail and was amazed at how differently they responded to the essentially same rider input.
Hey Butch, if you can wait a week, I've got a scheme to implement in which paid subscribers like you will be able to practice together with me. And one of the skills that I want to work on is wheelies, as I'm in the same boat as you. And I know at least one other person who's in the same place as us. Might you be willing?
As for different bikes responding differently to your wheelie attempts, do you think that the strategy to swapping them out during practice is a type of 'desirably difficulty' that will help lead to more effective learning?
I'm all in on that for sure, Griff. Please send me the details. I'm not sure that swapping the bike types is a sufficient change in difficulty. I've wondered if practicing on steeper grades might introduce some variability. One thing for sure, the hard tail snaps up to the float zone quickly, the FS not as much. That's where I'm hung up, getting to the float zone consistently. When I do get there, I can up to 6 to 8 pedal strokes in before I drop my vision or lose my side-to-side balance. I can feel the effects of turning the bar, widening the knees, etc. on the side-to-side balance. Maintaining the float zone front-to-back by modulating the rear brake is eluding me. Every attempt just brings the front tire back to earth. Ha.
Butch, modulating the rear brake for the wheelie is a very difficult skill to learn. Welcome to the club!
As a fellow failed wheelier I can sympathise with what you're saying! Is the geo of your FS significantly different to the hardtail? I have a few older bikes with slack seat angles and short chainstays and they are significantly easier to pop up than my more modern bikes. I think the seat tube angle is the major differentiator.
For me the hard bit with plateaus is believing that there is an 'up' to come. It makes sense that at some point I will inevitably plateau out so maybe I am there already? Approaching the drills with curiosity and fun instead of a focus to acheive will make a difference I think.
Dogtank, does it help to know that you've overcome plateaus in the past?